Someone with Desktop Dyno?

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Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby wylde1 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:15 pm

I'm putting this motor together and i'm just curious what kind of power i'm looking at.

since i don't have Desktop dyno i was wondering if someone out there had it and was bored and might be able to fire off a ballpark for me?

basically all stock 400 sbc, including stock heads but i'll be adding these parts to get it going: (parts are from summit)

CCA-K12-206-2 valvetrain kit
-hydraulic flat tappet lifters
-212/212 @ .050"
-260/260 advertised
-0.440 int./0.440 exh. lift
-110 LSA

(or if I piece the rest together at home)

SUM-K1105 cam and lifters
-Hyd. FT. lifters
-224/234 @ .050"
-282/292 advertised
-0.465 int./0.488 exh. lift
-114 LSA

SUM-G6905 Full roller rocker arms
-1.5 ratio

oh and my crank is machined 0.010" if that makes any difference. the first one looks to be a pretty mild cam but i sort of settled on it because it's a daily driver for the next few years. I'd be pretty pumped to see high 200's mabye even 300. that number seem realistic for this combo to anyone? I'm open to suggestions for cams to get to that number as well. I just thought the kit would be the easiest way to match everything. But i don't mind piecing springs and stuff together from parts shops around here if the bigger cam makes a big difference.
'91 Reg cab short box
400 sbc
summit 1103 cam
882 heads, Comp Beehives, moly retainers, 10* locks
summit full roller rockers
T56 trans

exactly 172.84 funs per cubic inch

Engineer (en je 'nir) n. An individual who is able to produce, with prolific abandon, streams of incomprehensible formulae based upon extremely vague assumptions and theories based on debatable figures acquired from inconclusive tests and incomplete experiments, carried out with instruments of problematic accuracy by persons of doubtful reliability and rather dubious mentality with the particular anticipation of disconcerting and annoying everyone outside of their own profession. [source unknown]
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Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby mcampau » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:53 pm

still need a few things
bore size?
carb?
intake?
exhaust?
compression ratio?
cylinder head flow or casting numbers at least?
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Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby strokethatsbc! » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:33 pm

you won't have any problems getting 400lbs. of torq and 300hp out of a stock 400. i use engine analyzer 3.2. if you ran stock heads (w/ heat crossover), eddy rpm performer intake, a holley (4160) 600vs. 1 5/8" long tube headers, true dual 2 1/2" exhaust, those full roller rockers, and i would use the summit 1103 cam(more streetable then the 1105), should be close to 400lbs torq at 3200 rpm, and 300hp at 4200. these are very good #s for a daily driver. this is w/ 8.5:1 cr and run on 87 octane, if you bump the cr up to 9:1 then those #s will go up about .5% and be able to run on 87. that summit 1105 cam is a good cam for a manual tranny. it will work for a auto, if you use a stall converter. it likes higher rpm, which is not good for a daily driver. that comp cam is also a good cam for a daily driver. i perfer a cam w/ a 112lsa( better vacuum and idle quality), for a street engine. those 110lsa cams fall out at higher rpm, but have good power down low.
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Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby Rickracer » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:07 pm

I think you'd be happier with the 1105 in 400+ cube motor, it might be a bit much for some folks in a DD with a smaller cubic " motor, but that 400 will eat it up nicely if it has even decent heads and compression. Like Mike said, more details would be a good idea though, before you hit the "order" button, 8)
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'93 S10 SB,RC, Comp XR276 Hydraulic Roller, Vortec head 363, 400 + hp, built 700R4, JW 2800 stall lockup converter, 3.73 posi, disc brake, narrowed 8.8 Exploder rear, LS Camaro front discs, Cal-Trac clone traction bars, Best N/A passes to date: 8.0 in the 1/8th, 12.75@106 mph in the 1/4, gonna spray it soon... :mrgreen:
76 Chevy Vega Drag Car, TWIN TURBO 355, P/G trans w/ brake and JW 4000 stall vert, 4 link back half, narrowed 9", 3.50 gears, 29.5x10.5W ET Drags. Best time9.669 @ 139.79, Latest video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S59riYn ... ata_player
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Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby wylde1 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:42 pm

Sorry guys, I've never really used one of those programs so i wasn't sure exactly what you needed.

bore - 4.125

carb - holley 750cfm, (going to pick it up tomorrow used, not sure the exact model but can put it up when i get it)

intake - aluminum edelbrock performer dual plane

exhaust - 2.5 dual full (no x pipe), baffle bottles, s-10 conversion headers from s10v8.com (not sure what brand they are, Sanderson mabye? I just know they were pretty cheap lol)

Compression & Heads - not exactly sure, I know they're stock heads, and pistons, so CR should be about stock as well I'm guessing 9ish. The heads are actually at the plating shop getting dipped to remove the rust, so i can get casting numbers when I get them back tomorrow or so.

thanks for the quick replys though i didn't expect such helpful info already. I would LOVE to see 400 lbs of torque out of this.

if you spread that much torque out a 1/4" thick it would cover belgium. - Jeremy Clarkson

And i've actually got a line on some Crower roller lifters, so i might just be picking up a cam instead of the valvetrain kit. I'll just piece the rest together myself.

It is going to be a daily driver, but i wouldn't mind a little lope, just to let the civics and integras know who's boss :boink: so i'm starting to lean a bit more towards the bigger one (1105) do i need a different one if i end up with the roller lifters?
'91 Reg cab short box
400 sbc
summit 1103 cam
882 heads, Comp Beehives, moly retainers, 10* locks
summit full roller rockers
T56 trans

exactly 172.84 funs per cubic inch

Engineer (en je 'nir) n. An individual who is able to produce, with prolific abandon, streams of incomprehensible formulae based upon extremely vague assumptions and theories based on debatable figures acquired from inconclusive tests and incomplete experiments, carried out with instruments of problematic accuracy by persons of doubtful reliability and rather dubious mentality with the particular anticipation of disconcerting and annoying everyone outside of their own profession. [source unknown]
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Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby strokethatsbc! » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:46 pm

:lol: ,oh the many choices. for roller lifters, you need a roller cam.
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Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby strokethatsbc! » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:52 pm

stock 400's came w/ 8:1-8.5:1 cr. the stock cam is 194 dur at .05 tappet lift. if you go w/ a cam that has a 224dur. at .05 tappet lift. you will lose a butt load of bottom end torq. now if you bumped the cr up to 9.5: then that 1105 will work for you, but plan on a stall converter.
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Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby wylde1 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:16 pm

hmm well different pistons and heads aren't really in the cards right now. so if i'm reading you right I should probably go with something a little closer to the stock duration. is the 212 @ .050" close enough? I know what the numbers mean, but i'm still fuzzy on quantifying the changes in them.
'91 Reg cab short box
400 sbc
summit 1103 cam
882 heads, Comp Beehives, moly retainers, 10* locks
summit full roller rockers
T56 trans

exactly 172.84 funs per cubic inch

Engineer (en je 'nir) n. An individual who is able to produce, with prolific abandon, streams of incomprehensible formulae based upon extremely vague assumptions and theories based on debatable figures acquired from inconclusive tests and incomplete experiments, carried out with instruments of problematic accuracy by persons of doubtful reliability and rather dubious mentality with the particular anticipation of disconcerting and annoying everyone outside of their own profession. [source unknown]
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Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby strokethatsbc! » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:40 pm

comps cams are very good quailty cams, and they are worth every penny. in your case, w/ your better heads later on thing, i think you should go w/ a cheaper cam and lifter kit from summit. save that money for those heads then get the comps. just my opiion! that comps 212 would work. in fact all cams will work, but will they work for your combo. i see this is for a dd. what about fuel milage? does it matter? if it does then stay close to stock. the 400 was made for work trucks( heavy pullers) and they done the job. just didn't make big #s up high. but work vehicles don't need high rpm. now w/ headers , better intake, carb, and cam, w/ the stock heads, the #s will come up (w/o losing that much low end). that holley 750, (even if it is a mech. sec.) is not gonna help power #s w/ those heads. a 750 vac. sec. will help low end (but still be hard on fuel). a 600 vac sec. will be the best bet. i'm not talking about a balls to the walls race motor now. just a reliable, start and drive, and run down ricers :D 400 stocker. 8)
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Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby wylde1 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:51 pm

yeah right now I'll actually be quite fine with stock numbers. It'll still pull harder than my 2.5L it started with lol I'll probably try and find an inexpensive roller cam (if there is such a thing) with specs close to that comp kit. and run it stock until i'm done school, then start making the push for big numbers. Geez the 305 i had in there pulled pretty hard and i was very happy with it (right up until it blew up), I can't see a stock 400 being worse :cool:
'91 Reg cab short box
400 sbc
summit 1103 cam
882 heads, Comp Beehives, moly retainers, 10* locks
summit full roller rockers
T56 trans

exactly 172.84 funs per cubic inch

Engineer (en je 'nir) n. An individual who is able to produce, with prolific abandon, streams of incomprehensible formulae based upon extremely vague assumptions and theories based on debatable figures acquired from inconclusive tests and incomplete experiments, carried out with instruments of problematic accuracy by persons of doubtful reliability and rather dubious mentality with the particular anticipation of disconcerting and annoying everyone outside of their own profession. [source unknown]
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Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby strokethatsbc! » Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:57 am

you can download the engine analyizer pro 3.5v. its free for 10 days, then you get a demo version. free is worth a try. http://www.performancetrends.com/download.htm#eapro
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Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby Rickracer » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:01 am

I helped a friend assemble a stock 72 400 many years ago, we used a Comp 280 Magnum cam and lifters, high rise dual plane aluminum intake, headers, and a 3310 carb. Had a little bit of a lope, good bottom end, and KILLER midrange. This was in a 68 Camaro with a 3.23 or 3.55 gear and a 4 speed. 8)
Rickracer
ASE Certified Master Automotive Technician (well over 3 decades of experience, :thumbup: )
'93 S10 SB,RC, Comp XR276 Hydraulic Roller, Vortec head 363, 400 + hp, built 700R4, JW 2800 stall lockup converter, 3.73 posi, disc brake, narrowed 8.8 Exploder rear, LS Camaro front discs, Cal-Trac clone traction bars, Best N/A passes to date: 8.0 in the 1/8th, 12.75@106 mph in the 1/4, gonna spray it soon... :mrgreen:
76 Chevy Vega Drag Car, TWIN TURBO 355, P/G trans w/ brake and JW 4000 stall vert, 4 link back half, narrowed 9", 3.50 gears, 29.5x10.5W ET Drags. Best time9.669 @ 139.79, Latest video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S59riYn ... ata_player
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Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby wylde1 » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:34 am

sweet that's the kind of thing i like to hear! :boink:

thanks stroke for that link i'll definatly be downloading that.


looks like my crower roller lifters are on the way, found them in the classifieds for $130! new in the box i'm friggin pumped about that find
'91 Reg cab short box
400 sbc
summit 1103 cam
882 heads, Comp Beehives, moly retainers, 10* locks
summit full roller rockers
T56 trans

exactly 172.84 funs per cubic inch

Engineer (en je 'nir) n. An individual who is able to produce, with prolific abandon, streams of incomprehensible formulae based upon extremely vague assumptions and theories based on debatable figures acquired from inconclusive tests and incomplete experiments, carried out with instruments of problematic accuracy by persons of doubtful reliability and rather dubious mentality with the particular anticipation of disconcerting and annoying everyone outside of their own profession. [source unknown]
wylde1
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Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby wylde1 » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:09 am

I'm thinking the rollers might stay in the box until i can get better heads and bring the compression up a bit. Roller cams are just too expensive to be rolling the dice or comprimising on size to mate with CR.

so i'm lookin' at the summit 1103 cam i think, (i know i change my mind lots lol) it seems to be a happy medium between the stock and pushing the limits of my compression ratio.
'91 Reg cab short box
400 sbc
summit 1103 cam
882 heads, Comp Beehives, moly retainers, 10* locks
summit full roller rockers
T56 trans

exactly 172.84 funs per cubic inch

Engineer (en je 'nir) n. An individual who is able to produce, with prolific abandon, streams of incomprehensible formulae based upon extremely vague assumptions and theories based on debatable figures acquired from inconclusive tests and incomplete experiments, carried out with instruments of problematic accuracy by persons of doubtful reliability and rather dubious mentality with the particular anticipation of disconcerting and annoying everyone outside of their own profession. [source unknown]
wylde1
I use a rag as an 710 cap
 
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Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada

Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby Rickracer » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:29 am

Check the other post, got a 12-700-8 for saaaaale....... :wink: 8)
Rickracer
ASE Certified Master Automotive Technician (well over 3 decades of experience, :thumbup: )
'93 S10 SB,RC, Comp XR276 Hydraulic Roller, Vortec head 363, 400 + hp, built 700R4, JW 2800 stall lockup converter, 3.73 posi, disc brake, narrowed 8.8 Exploder rear, LS Camaro front discs, Cal-Trac clone traction bars, Best N/A passes to date: 8.0 in the 1/8th, 12.75@106 mph in the 1/4, gonna spray it soon... :mrgreen:
76 Chevy Vega Drag Car, TWIN TURBO 355, P/G trans w/ brake and JW 4000 stall vert, 4 link back half, narrowed 9", 3.50 gears, 29.5x10.5W ET Drags. Best time9.669 @ 139.79, Latest video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S59riYn ... ata_player
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Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby strokethatsbc! » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:50 pm

:shock: that 12-700-8 cam will wake that stock 400 up. i'm really likeing that idea. but take your time and get everything right. roller cam kits are expensive. that would be the way to go 8)
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Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby wylde1 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:12 pm

So i downloaded the engine analyzer and theres quite a few things in there that i'm sure i'm missing. Specifically for flow number for my heads and intake. which might be why my numbers look a little funny. mabye someone with more experience with these can use this info to make a better check.

bore -4.125
stroke- 3.75
rods - 5.65
carb - holley 3310 (750 cfm)
Intake - aluminum edelbrock dual plane performer
exhaust - 1 3/4 primaries into 2.5" collector. full dual.
Compression - ~8.5
Heads - Casting # 333882, 76cc chambers, 1.94/1.5 valves, 137.2cfm intake/95.4cfm exh
cam - summit 1103 FT hyd.

i put that in to the best of my knowledge and came out with this:

RPM HP Trq
500 19 191
1000 59 310
1500 103 360
2000 137 360
2500 189 398
3000 245 429
3500 287 431
4000 318 417


HP #'s look a little funny to me with the 19, 59 and such.... I'd be pretty happy with that torque reading though (although it looks like theres a flat spot there which tells me I probably don't know how to use engine analyzer)
'91 Reg cab short box
400 sbc
summit 1103 cam
882 heads, Comp Beehives, moly retainers, 10* locks
summit full roller rockers
T56 trans

exactly 172.84 funs per cubic inch

Engineer (en je 'nir) n. An individual who is able to produce, with prolific abandon, streams of incomprehensible formulae based upon extremely vague assumptions and theories based on debatable figures acquired from inconclusive tests and incomplete experiments, carried out with instruments of problematic accuracy by persons of doubtful reliability and rather dubious mentality with the particular anticipation of disconcerting and annoying everyone outside of their own profession. [source unknown]
wylde1
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Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby mcampau » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:30 pm

that should be pretty close. I don't know about that flat spot though.
1964 Chevy Belair - Long term project
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Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby strokethatsbc! » Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:18 am

set the timing 10 at 700, 32 at 3200. the stock 400 rods are 5.565. start your rpm at 700(idle) gonna be kinda hard at 500. flat spot could be stock heads. those heads and intake will have full production heat, unless you block them. pick your parts from the example list. i forgot the accuracy for the 3.5 pro, but the 3.2 is pretty close. that 750 vac sec.carb will flow closer to 725. your cam should be 5 degs. advance w/ intake centerline at 107. i'm sure you will be running the 1.5 rockers, but try 1.6,1.65,1.7 for future build. depending on mufflers your exhaust flow will be 600-800. production windage and bearings. the 3.2 version is showing a nice touq curve, 200 lbs at 700, w/ a max of 373 lbs at 3700, 26hp at 700 w/ max of 295 at 4200. this is w all accessories including a/c. very good #s for a daily driver on 87 octane. it take a while too figure out 8)
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Re: Someone with Desktop Dyno?

Postby wylde1 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:40 am

Awesome thanks! this is the first time i've really played around with one of these programs so i was pretty sure i was missing things.


I'd definatly be happy with those numbers

in the notes when i did it, the program said knock and detonation would be likely. Should I try running it on 91? i didn't think i really had the compression to make it worth running 91
'91 Reg cab short box
400 sbc
summit 1103 cam
882 heads, Comp Beehives, moly retainers, 10* locks
summit full roller rockers
T56 trans

exactly 172.84 funs per cubic inch

Engineer (en je 'nir) n. An individual who is able to produce, with prolific abandon, streams of incomprehensible formulae based upon extremely vague assumptions and theories based on debatable figures acquired from inconclusive tests and incomplete experiments, carried out with instruments of problematic accuracy by persons of doubtful reliability and rather dubious mentality with the particular anticipation of disconcerting and annoying everyone outside of their own profession. [source unknown]
wylde1
I use a rag as an 710 cap
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada

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