Rod knock??

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Re: Rod knock??

Postby Nite Dragon » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:53 pm

How could the misbalance happen? It never had the knock until after the break in of the new cam. I'm hoping the knock was just from the bearings being worn. All the bearings micd out at 0.04-0.05. What is the normal thickness of 010 bearings?

Any ideas on how much I'd be looking at from a machine shop to dip and hone the block and turn the crank?
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Re: Rod knock??

Postby Nite Dragon » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:37 pm

Think I might just say screw it and get https://m.summitracing.com/parts/nal-10067353/none/images

Has new heads which mine are old and need rebuilt, has a bigger cam, and after all the machine work and parts I have to replace on mine. I'll come out ahead plus has a year warranty

Thoughts??
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Re: Rod knock??

Postby Rickracer » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:06 am

Here ya go: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal- ... /overview/, add a carbed Vortec intake and you'll have a very reliable SBC with plenty of torque. The extra $500 gets you 4 bolt mains, hypereutectic pistons, Vortec heads, and if you add some 1.6 rockers, about 300+ hp. :thumbup:
Rickracer
ASE Certified Master Automotive Technician (well over 3 decades of experience, :thumbup: )
'93 S10 SB,RC, Comp XR276 Hydraulic Roller, Vortec head 363, 400 + hp, built 700R4, JW 2800 stall lockup converter, 3.73 posi, disc brake, narrowed 8.8 Exploder rear, LS Camaro front discs, Cal-Trac clone traction bars, Best N/A passes to date: 7.76 in the 1/8th, 12.24@109.27 mph in the 1/4, gonna spray it one of these days... :mrgreen:
76 Chevy Vega Drag Car, TWIN TURBO 355, P/G trans w/ brake and JW 4000 stall vert, 4 link back half, narrowed 9", 3.50 gears, 29.5x10.5W ET Drags. Best time9.669 @ 139.79, Latest video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S59riYn ... ata_player
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Re: Rod knock??

Postby Nite Dragon » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:46 am

thanks rick
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'88 Blazer... Dropped 6in.. suicide hood... suicide doors... 355 small block... Non-Lockup TH350... shaved doorhandles, cowl, bumper... frenched license plate... handmade phantom grill...
My Blaz Page Check out my Suicide Hood How-to Suicide Hood Pics

Next time you are too drunk to drive: Walk to the nearest pizza shop, place an order, and when they go to deliver it, catch a ride home with them.
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Re: Rod knock??

Postby Nite Dragon » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:48 am

I'm definitely gonna go with that roller motor with the vortec heads but I have a few questions on the cam.

What would the idle be like with the cam it comes with? Specs: "This combination is paired up with a roller cam that has 0.414 in. of intake lift and 0.428 in. for the exhausts. Duration at 0.050 in. of lift is 191 degrees for the intakes and 196 for the exhausts, with 111 degrees of lobe separation"

Now that I have heads that flow well I'd like to have a beefier cam to get the idle ive always wanted. If the one that comes with it isnt what I want, What should I go with? Would Summit put it together with a different cam or would I have to swap it?
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'88 Blazer... Dropped 6in.. suicide hood... suicide doors... 355 small block... Non-Lockup TH350... shaved doorhandles, cowl, bumper... frenched license plate... handmade phantom grill...
My Blaz Page Check out my Suicide Hood How-to Suicide Hood Pics

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Re: Rod knock??

Postby Rickracer » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:02 pm

That cam is the same one as the Vortec small block in my bosses boat, only we added the 1.6 rockers...it's a 29' cabin cruiser that weighs in at about 9500 lbs., with a single small block. That Vortec motor with the stock L31 cam, some 1.6 rockers, and a Holley 4 bbl ProJection on Marine 4 bbl Vortec intake get that huge tub on plane in about 3 boat lengths, and from a cruise speed of about 3200, the tach rises as fast as the throttle moves and then boat catches up. Unless you REALLY want a lopey sound, try that L31 cam with some 1.6 rockers first, :thumbup:
Rickracer
ASE Certified Master Automotive Technician (well over 3 decades of experience, :thumbup: )
'93 S10 SB,RC, Comp XR276 Hydraulic Roller, Vortec head 363, 400 + hp, built 700R4, JW 2800 stall lockup converter, 3.73 posi, disc brake, narrowed 8.8 Exploder rear, LS Camaro front discs, Cal-Trac clone traction bars, Best N/A passes to date: 7.76 in the 1/8th, 12.24@109.27 mph in the 1/4, gonna spray it one of these days... :mrgreen:
76 Chevy Vega Drag Car, TWIN TURBO 355, P/G trans w/ brake and JW 4000 stall vert, 4 link back half, narrowed 9", 3.50 gears, 29.5x10.5W ET Drags. Best time9.669 @ 139.79, Latest video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S59riYn ... ata_player
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Re: Rod knock??

Postby lowblazin94 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:57 pm

Give Howards Cams a call and see what they say. Don't think that cam will give you much of a choppy idle you want
92 S10 Ext cab
385
700r4
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Re: Rod knock??

Postby Nite Dragon » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:28 am

I'm sure the L31 cam will perform but I do want the lopey sound, always have but couldnt get it with the old heads i had. I figured since ill have the motor on the stand to finish putting the long block together might as well put in what I want. I am going to go with the 1.6 rockers. Cam spec have always been a mystery to me and was hoping to get some suggestions on a grind that will work with the rest of the motor and give me the idle i want without having to machine the heads. I could call around but I trust yalls opionions.
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'88 Blazer... Dropped 6in.. suicide hood... suicide doors... 355 small block... Non-Lockup TH350... shaved doorhandles, cowl, bumper... frenched license plate... handmade phantom grill...
My Blaz Page Check out my Suicide Hood How-to Suicide Hood Pics

Next time you are too drunk to drive: Walk to the nearest pizza shop, place an order, and when they go to deliver it, catch a ride home with them.
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Nite Dragon
I use coil springs as slinkys.
 
Posts: 183
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Location: Orange Park, FL

Re: Rod knock??

Postby lowblazin94 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:52 am

Definitely call around. Avoid Comp, I don't trust their stuff. These cam company techs will know more than any of us.

Howards is a good brand and I know many people who use their stuff.
92 S10 Ext cab
385
700r4
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Re: Rod knock??

Postby Nite Dragon » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:52 am

ok i called comp and howards to get some suggestions for what i am looking for and heres what they recommend. Would like to get yalls opinions on em

Comp Cams -
cam - 08-423-8 http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam- ... d=188&sb=2
springs - 26915-16
retainers - 787-16
locks - 648-16

Howards - 188005-09
cam - http://howardscams.com/i-24076634-howar ... shaft.html
spring/retainer/lock kit - 98212-k11

they both say they wont require any machine work to the heads, use the stock lifters and rockers. But will need screw in studs cuz the added lift and stronger springs. Also I may need a vacuum canister for my brakes.

I want to get this right the first time so i don't have to go back into the motor again. i have too many projects in the works. I do have a few months before i have all the funds to get it all, so I'm trying to do all the research i can
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'88 Blazer... Dropped 6in.. suicide hood... suicide doors... 355 small block... Non-Lockup TH350... shaved doorhandles, cowl, bumper... frenched license plate... handmade phantom grill...
My Blaz Page Check out my Suicide Hood How-to Suicide Hood Pics

Next time you are too drunk to drive: Walk to the nearest pizza shop, place an order, and when they go to deliver it, catch a ride home with them.
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Nite Dragon
I use coil springs as slinkys.
 
Posts: 183
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Location: Orange Park, FL

Re: Rod knock??

Postby Rickracer » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:51 pm

That XR76 is the same cam as what's in my motor, and I'm pretty happy with it, it's been 12.24 @ 109 on street tires, on 7/11 pump gas.
Rickracer
ASE Certified Master Automotive Technician (well over 3 decades of experience, :thumbup: )
'93 S10 SB,RC, Comp XR276 Hydraulic Roller, Vortec head 363, 400 + hp, built 700R4, JW 2800 stall lockup converter, 3.73 posi, disc brake, narrowed 8.8 Exploder rear, LS Camaro front discs, Cal-Trac clone traction bars, Best N/A passes to date: 7.76 in the 1/8th, 12.24@109.27 mph in the 1/4, gonna spray it one of these days... :mrgreen:
76 Chevy Vega Drag Car, TWIN TURBO 355, P/G trans w/ brake and JW 4000 stall vert, 4 link back half, narrowed 9", 3.50 gears, 29.5x10.5W ET Drags. Best time9.669 @ 139.79, Latest video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S59riYn ... ata_player
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Re: Rod knock??

Postby Nite Dragon » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:49 pm

rick, do you have a sound clip of your idle?

Whats your opinion on the howard cam?

Just want to clarify also that all of this is correct as well..."they both say they wont require any machine work to the heads, I can use the stock lifters and rockers. But will need screw in studs due to the added lift and stronger springs. Also I may need a vacuum canister for my brakes."

I was afraid that going over .500 lift would require machine work on the heads
Image
'88 Blazer... Dropped 6in.. suicide hood... suicide doors... 355 small block... Non-Lockup TH350... shaved doorhandles, cowl, bumper... frenched license plate... handmade phantom grill...
My Blaz Page Check out my Suicide Hood How-to Suicide Hood Pics

Next time you are too drunk to drive: Walk to the nearest pizza shop, place an order, and when they go to deliver it, catch a ride home with them.
User avatar
Nite Dragon
I use coil springs as slinkys.
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:19 pm
Location: Orange Park, FL

Re: Rod knock??

Postby lowblazin94 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:52 pm

Seems excessive on the lift. You can stay under .500 lift and still have a healthy cam. I'd call them back and see what other grind they recommend
92 S10 Ext cab
385
700r4
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Re: Rod knock??

Postby lowblazin94 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:54 pm

This is the Howard 112031 in a 385. I've seen replaced the power valve so it idles much cleaner now.

That grind requires a higher stall though.

https://youtu.be/RHJDHoLb8DM
92 S10 Ext cab
385
700r4
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Re: Rod knock??

Postby Nite Dragon » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:44 am

I havent got a chance to call howard back but a quick glance at their page, the rattler one step down would be http://howardscams.com/i-24076245-howar ... shaft.html

480 lift, rest of the specs are the same. would that be better?
how would the comp cam compare to this howards cam?
Image
'88 Blazer... Dropped 6in.. suicide hood... suicide doors... 355 small block... Non-Lockup TH350... shaved doorhandles, cowl, bumper... frenched license plate... handmade phantom grill...
My Blaz Page Check out my Suicide Hood How-to Suicide Hood Pics

Next time you are too drunk to drive: Walk to the nearest pizza shop, place an order, and when they go to deliver it, catch a ride home with them.
User avatar
Nite Dragon
I use coil springs as slinkys.
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:19 pm
Location: Orange Park, FL

Re: Rod knock??

Postby lowblazin94 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:42 am

The ones they recommended are roller cams. You'd have to call them and get the roller cam specs unless you are going to flat tappet. I'd stick with the roller if that's what you have.
92 S10 Ext cab
385
700r4
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Re: Rod knock??

Postby Rickracer » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:48 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geuyCR6Y104 , :thumbup:

You have to put the right springs on a roller anyway, so it's no big deal to make sure there is room for the lift. Lift much over .500 doesn't seem to help Vortec heads much anyway, but right up to .500, + or -, is good, mind you the same combo in this vid, (motor, cam, tires), took the truck to 12.24 in the 1/4 mile, and happily tows my boat and race car around. :wink:
I had thought of picking the next size smaller cam, but my machinist and I decided it would have put the dynamic compression ratio to high. 8)
Rickracer
ASE Certified Master Automotive Technician (well over 3 decades of experience, :thumbup: )
'93 S10 SB,RC, Comp XR276 Hydraulic Roller, Vortec head 363, 400 + hp, built 700R4, JW 2800 stall lockup converter, 3.73 posi, disc brake, narrowed 8.8 Exploder rear, LS Camaro front discs, Cal-Trac clone traction bars, Best N/A passes to date: 7.76 in the 1/8th, 12.24@109.27 mph in the 1/4, gonna spray it one of these days... :mrgreen:
76 Chevy Vega Drag Car, TWIN TURBO 355, P/G trans w/ brake and JW 4000 stall vert, 4 link back half, narrowed 9", 3.50 gears, 29.5x10.5W ET Drags. Best time9.669 @ 139.79, Latest video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S59riYn ... ata_player
Rickracer
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